Bad behavior symptoms and conditions

What a great website....My 2 year old son has been taking singulair for about 1 month, I know that he's having nightmares, his appetite has decreased substantially,and his behavior is unusually aggressive (I thought it was bad behavior picked up from day care...) I'm really having second thoughts about this medicine. confusing...this medicine does break up the thick mucas leading to labored breathing attacks...this is worth investigating more....what to do to have ur child diagnosed and treated properly.

sounds like my daughter who is 18 years old mood swings bad behavior rude remarks,, I feel with all the hormones injected in our meat supply with birth control did it to my daughter she cannot take birth control pills and is currently
taking zoloft 50 mg they also prescribed adderall which i am taking her off today the birth control pills might be doing it but I suggest you get a hormone drug test to check her hormone level that is what I am going to do.

I found this web site while searching side effect of Singulair. My Son - 7 years old is experiencing same issue - Severe random leg pain in both legs or 1 leg as mentioned by few others. He can not walk when it happened and I have to carry him. The pain disappear in 2-3 days or sometimes it takes 5-6 days.

We did X-Ray and doc could not find anything wrong.

Others..who are facing same issue...I would appreciate if u can send me an email to ****** so that we can talk in detail.

Who administers this site? I posted a side effect last night after I registered and then this morning I got an email saying there was a reply to my posting and when I tried to log in, my account was inactive and my posting had been removed, as had the reply to my posting. I don't know if it is because I put a link the an online reporting tool where the FDA is compiling feedback from people/or their children who have experienced terrible side-effects. Here is the link again and I urge you all to report your cases: http://www.fda.gov/cder/drug/early_comm/montelukast.htm

My son is 3.5 and has been on Singular for 2 months and just like all of the other stories about the other young children posted here, he is a different kid after being on Singular. Last night was the first night I took him off of it. All of the side-effects that are mentioned here are the same ones my son is experiencing, nightmares (screaming in the night), hyper, aggressive, reliving injuries from days past, the day care telling me that they now have concerns about how different he has been lately and the even used the term "bad behavior". They said he is hyper, he screams, not listening, aggressive. He is a favorite at day care since he is so loving, polite and kind. I know all parents say that, but pretty much anyone who has met him compliments me on how well behaved he is. I am even nervous to have people over since he seems out of control and I have found myself ensuring people that he isn't normally like this. I have taken him off as of last night and I am hoping he will get back to his old happy-go-lucky self soon. Does anyone know how long it can take to get this poison out of their system? I pray that there are no permanent side-effects.

Well, we just got out of the ENT and he couldn't believe that his ped put him on Singulair. He said he didn't like it, it wasn't a good drug, and hadn't heard of many good things about it. He also told me to take my son off immediately, to bad I already had. He also wanted me to put him back on Zyrtec but only when needed, not every day like he had been taking it. Told him about how the neb. had been talked about so he listened to my little one's lungs and he said that they are all clear and there is no need for one. While I was in this appointment, his ped. called. She said that she had never heard of any side effects with this and she wanted him to stay on it for a week to see if it worked or not. Sorry we aren't doing that, we had four doses of it and that is more than enough to say we aren't staying with it. This is just his first full day off the med and I shouldn't get all worked up but while in the waiting room to see the ENT we had two huge fits and even hit his head on one of the chairs because he didn't get his way. The ENT said to give him about a week to go threw "detox" and get it out of his system and then he should be back to himself.

Also, on top of the big mood changes and swings we didn't sleep good last night and had another fit of rage in the waiting room of the ENT. Not fun at all.

I have two sons on Singulair, my three old was suspended today from pre-school for bad behavior. Screaming, biting, scratching, and hitting have been going on for the last few months. But worse the past two weeks. He has always been active and played like a boy, but he has been getting violent. We have tried positive reinforcement, praising good behavior both verbally and with rewards, I have tried time-out, being grounded, not being able to participate in activities, no t.v. and old fashioned butt spanking. All of this with no positive results. I am not looking for an excuse for my child's behavior, but could Singulair really be the cause of his aggression?

Our son started taking Singulair when he was 2 for severe allergic rhinitis and cough variant asthma (in addition to Zyrtec, which didn’t control all of his symptoms). He is 5 now. For the last three years, he has been an increasingly violent, difficult, defiant, argumentative, volatile child who has intense mood swings--one minute he’s laughing uncontrollably, the next he’s weeping over nothing. His doctor and therapist recommended that we see a psychiatrist to have him evaluated for bipolar disorder, which used to be unknown in children. Because he has such chronic sleep problems, the doctor also suggested we take him off Singulair (and increase his Zyrtec dose) to see if it improved his sleep issues. Within a week, he was sleeping much better and was a calmer, happier, gentler boy. He suddenly could take “no” for an answer without flipping out and trying to hurt me. We thought that we were just in an unusual, calm window that would shift either to mania or intense sadness or both, any minute. We also thought that his behavior change might be due to sleeping better. We were enjoying the rare reprieve. Over the last weekend, his springtime allergies really flared up. We gave him Singulair on Monday and by noon, he was completely out of control. I had to strap him into his car seat at one point to keep him from hurting either me or himself. It finally occurred to me that Singulair might be causing his “bipolar” disorder. Of course, we stopped the Singulair. After two days he was a new boy. Yesterday, I Googled “Singulair bipolar children” and got a few hits. I am stunned to read how similar other families’ experiences have been to ours and I feel sick that we gave this drug to our child for three years.

Oh my gosh, I am just shocked after reading these posts. I am taking my son off of Singulair immediatedly!!!! I knew I wasn't crazy!! My son was on Singulair for over 2 years and it was awful. He was so hyper and uncontrollable. He couldn't control his temper. He had headaches everyday. He was put on it due to severe allergies and asthma. He is on other medications as well as allergy shots. I kept telling the doctor that I think the singulair was causing his bad behavior problems. He was just so hard to handle. He couldn't sit still for anything. The teacher couldn't get him to sit still in his chair. It just wasn't normal behavior for him. The teacher even thought he had ADD!! I didn't accept that however. The doctor just thought I was crazy and told me that Singulair wouldn't cause those symptoms. She said it actually would work opposit that and cause him to be sleepy. Well I took him off of it anyways and he did get pretty sick. His asthma acted up ect. But he eventually felt better and his behavior improved drastically. He wasn't so hyper and he could actually sleep at night and wasn't so scared at night. Just within the last week he has been pretty sick due to allergy season, his asthma has been bad and the doctor told me to put him back on the Singulair. So I did he has been on it for four days now and he is HORRIBLE.. It was an instant change. My husband and I can't control him and he can't sleep at night and has headaches every day. I am so glad I found this sight. I am taking him off immediately.
Thank you all so much for your comments. This medicine should be outlawed. I don't care what the doctors say. By the way my son is 9 years old. I certainly had no idea that it has caused suicide. I am so sorry to you all that have experienced such horrible things. Come to think of it my son used to say he hated himself all of the time when he was on this medicine.
God Bless You All

After reading the other posts, I was flabbergasted at the side effects posted. My sons 8 and 10 have been on this medication for two plus years after seeing a specialist for asthma and allergies. During that time, my younger son was sent to "family therapy" for behavioral problems at school. Bedwetting and nightmares began for both boys, as well as stomach aches and a huge weight increase. They are both active and in sports. Upon reading this information on your post, I was floored when I read another child said "My brain makes me do it". My youngest son says that all the time in response to bad behavior and I never understood why he would say such a thing. After talking to him and explaining that I was taking him off the meds immediately, my older son overheard the conversation and said he wanted to go off them as well right away. He explained he's been sad since taking them and didn't know why as there is nothing to be sad about. We are a close knit family who spends all their time together. Singulair has helped my oldest son's asthma, but I'm so upset at the other side effects and not having this information from the FDA. I've spend thousands of dollars in family therapy only to find out it's the drug my physican prescribes that causes the problem. Do not take Singulair!

In response to Concernedcitizen with regard to the additional medications prescribed, we never got that far, but we were close. My son, as I've mentioned on here before (sorry for the repetition, but I think it's important), was about to be diagnosed as bipolar, which would no doubt have led to a whole host of other drugs.

Also, I totally agree with concernedcitizen with regard to not necessarily blaming our doctors. We should expect them to listen to us and take our concerns seriously, though. My son's first pediatricians were dismissive and condescending. We switched doctors and when I handed the new doctors a printout of all the posts from this site (back in 2005), they looked skeptical, but guess what? They READ it. And, my son's primary pediatrician has since told me that he's taken several kids off Singulair based on our story and the posts he read. The research provided her by concernedcitizen is INVALUABLE. If enough doctors see this stuff they'll start to question it and at least look at some of these children differently. Rather than throwing a prescription for Ritalin at them or stuffing them full of wellbutrin/abilify/lithium/klonopin/cymbalta/ they might think, "Hey, this kid's on Singulair...maybe we should try taking him/her off for a while to see what happens."

Finally, I wanted to put it out there that while kids may show mild side effects in the beginning (so mild that they can be dismissed in one way or another) I, personally, believe that with this drug side effects intensify over a period of time. My son, for example, was highly functional on singulair in the beginning and it completely eradicated his asthma and allergy symptoms, so it was great. Over time the side effects were more numerous and increasingly intense. Finally it got to the point where we couldn't dismiss it as bad behavior anymore, it was just completely outrageous behavior and my instinct told me it HAD to be the singulair. So these case studies that look at kids over a 24 week period are useless. In 24 weeks my son was fine. 52 weeks? Totally different child.

Definitely use the info provided on here, it will help not only your child, but other children as well.

My 5yo son is one week removed from Singulair, and we are starting to see a gradual improvement. When I first started reading these posts, I just sat and cried. My son started the meds last fall for allergy induced asthma and his behavoir has gotten progressively worse this January and February, so much so that I contacted the pediatrician to start the process of having him see a counselor. He was fine before last August. I blamed his problems in the fall to his adjustment to kindergarten, then my grandmother got sick and passed away February, so I thought this time his obsession with death and bad behavior at school was related to her. I never once even thought it was the Singulair. Looking back I realized the behavoir coincided with his Singulair use (I took him off it in December because there was nothing in the air to cause him to cough and he was fine). In January we started back up full steam ahead and the doctor increased dose...Hello!! He was so angry sometimes and had a multitude of the symptoms listed on this site. He would constantly say he hated school. He chewed his shirts repeatedly, actually chewing holes in the neck and sleeves, he would blink his eyes weirdly which I have equate to the "tick" other people described. He would say he was stupid, that no one loved him, that no kids wanted to play with him and that he was an idiot. He said he wished he was in heaven and wanted to leave this world. My mom found him wrapped in blankets over spring break and when she asked what he was doing he said he was trying to suffocate himself. His crying wasn't even a normal cry, it was in a word: soulful. It would make me cry just hearing it because it was such a mournful sound. At his aftercare program he would try and leave and say he wanted to get hit by a car, they actually had to restrain him. He had instances of aggression with other kids in school, which resulted in phone calls from the teacher and principal. Again I thought it was related to the death in the family and him having no other way of expressing his anger. I even blamed the other parent thinking they were overreacting - embarrassed about that now to say the least. I started getting names of dr's to get grief counseling to determine if it was the loss or if he was in the throes of depression. Then I see the news about Singulair and looked it up on the web since he was on it. Talk about taking your breath away. Then his stomach cramps made sense too. I would have to massage his stomach to make it feel better, thinking it was the milk causing it. People can say we are all making this up, or the posts are fake...even his allergist said they feel the benefits outweight the risks, but until you live it you really just don't get it. I took him off it that night. Each day is getting better. Today was a great day and I am cautiously optimistic for tomorrow. He was happy. Even his sister remarked about what a good mood he was in and that he wasn't whining or crying. Putting him to bed tonight he told me he loved me more than tomato pie...and in his world that's at the top of everything The sad thing is that the medicine works for the asthma and controlled his coughing. The cough is now back in force so it is a double edged sword. It's amazing how similiar the symptoms are with other kids. I guess hindsight truly is 20/20 huh?

I am posting this because I am just outraged reading all these e-mails and it is exactly the same thing over and over again. My son is now 6 and has been on singular for a little over a year. He was started on it after a asthma attack over the Christmas holidays. Prior to taking the medication he was a sweet loving kid. Honestly because he was so good we could not wait to have another one. Then came these crying spells for no reason. Then out of no where he would attack and kick and scream like someone was killing him even if you just asked to put your shoes on. It was crazy. Never made the connection to the singular. He started kindergarten and it was the same thing there. One week we happened to be really short on money due to an emergency and could not refill his prescription till the following Friday. And looking back now it was the first week that there were very little problems with him and he got all good remarks that week from his teacher.Well again at the time we did not make the connection.Back on the drug and back with the aggressive and bad behavior. Then our local t.v. news did a story about this medication. We looked at each other in shock and thought how could we have missed this? We decided to do our own test and took him of the medication again. While the hacking cough is back his mood swings have all but vanished and he is back to normal minus a few crying spells the last few days. I am confident keeping him off the meds. those will disappear soon enough to. We are only into day 4 off our test and already the diff. is huge. Something needs to be done about it now.

I have a daughter who is 3 years old and has had many hospitalizations due to Chronic Asthma/Allergies. She has only been taking the Singulair for about 4 months, but, it's strange to think about how much she has changed since she's been on it. I just chalked her bad behavior and restlessness up to changes in both my husband and I's work schedules. She is mean to other children that she is around, she has gotten into many arguments at school, she even attacked a child! She also will not sleep by herself any longer. When I seen the report this morning, I came to the realization that her behavior has not been the normal "terrible toddler" behavior, but much more exaggerated, by far....

My daughter who is 8 has been taking singulair for about 3 years. Her behavior has changed so much and the doctors said it was normal kid things......
She went from a sweet child to one who seems to have these horrible mood swings which cause her to lash out and say mean things, nobody loves her, she wants to run away, she hates me. She gets so angry and slams doors and acts like a child having a tantrum. She has had stomach problems which we went to doctors/specialists for a year......stomach aches at night/sometimes 24 hours a day. She has nightmares and wants me to sleep with her. She does not want to open her curtains because she thinks monsters will come in the windows. She has bad OCD related to germs. She now wants me to go with her when she plays at a neighbors house, she seems to want to know I am close by.
She is very independent and to start this clingy behavior this past year is not normal.
A relative is a doctor and thought my daughter has a touch of ADH but she is honor roll and very well behaved in school so maybe my relative is noticing anxiety in her. I need to call the doctor today and take her off this. I don't know if there is another medication to put her on or if she should be on it. She takes qvar and abuterol inhaler along with claritin D.
I just feel sick reading all these horror stories. I was being told her behavior is normal tantrums to get our attention. Now I know none of this is true.

My two sons have been taking Singulair off and on for allergy symptoms. Recently, I noticed this was causing both of them some side effects. With my youngest son, I noticed some serious mood swings and just discussed this a couple of weeks ago with a close friend. I told her what I thought was causing his mood changes, stomach aches, and etc. I experienced some over the weekend because my son was given this medication by mother that had some at her house just in case one of them needed the medication for asthma or allergies. I hadn't discussed this with my parents because I was logging this in a notebook, and I was confirming some things before I told anybody else what I thought about Singulair. Guess what? It happened again because it was administered to my youngest son by my mother not knowing my concerns. I didn't tell her because they went over late that evening then coming back in the morning. I wished I would have told her. Although, she feels very badly because I did tell her about my concerns after she had told me she had given this Singulair to him. This was after I had told her he was a a major mood swing!!!! Outrageous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My oldest son has experience major headaches, biting my husband and my head off over tiny things. (Thought it was the teenage thing.) I will not be giving my children SINGULAIR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Our 7 year old daughter has had "problems" for several years. After a news report this evening, it now makes sense - her problems are being caused by Singulair. I have sought treatment from 4 doctors in the past 3 months disparately pleading for their help to figure out what is wrong with her.

She began taking Singulair when we found she had allergies to cats and dogs at age 2 (since I nursed her for over 1 & 1/2 years and her allergies didn't appear until about 6 months after my "immunities" left her system). After several middle of the night visits to the ER for her difficulty choking/coughing in the middle of the night, the ped. suggested allergy testing. She was always quite "in your face" but in a sweet way and was quite defiant, so we always thought she purposely ignored us, especially while watching tv, but definitely a "live wire" all the while.

After 4 years of pre-school and dozens of notes indicating that she didn't follow the teachers directions, she was found to have a hearing impairment, just as she was entering Kindergarten. Needless to say, life for her has been a roller coaster for the past year and a half. The behavior problems have not improved; terrible twos at age seven...

Then, just a couple of weeks ago, she broke down crying in the bathtub, and commented that she sometimes wants to hurt herself because she can't stop herself from behaving badly (she often will get bad behavior check marks in school for 10-15 days straight, and then seems fine a week or two later and the cycle repeats itself sporadically).

The treatment for her allergies - - - we got rid of our cat and dog 5 years ago, and only give her the allergy medicines as needed (Singulair and Zyrtec)...meaning that we proactive avoidance and contact of all pets and animals and the homes where they live. We will give them to her a day or two in advance if she has an upcoming trip to the zoo, etc. and continue for several days after being exposed.

The past 3 months, I have spent countless endless nights searching the internet for answers, knowing something else is wrong with her. I have begged her battery of different doctors (pediatrician, ENT, allergy, audiologists) for answers, and even specifically asked her allergy doctor a month ago if there is any way, shape, or form that her medicines could cause behavior problems. I was assured it was not possible. Tonight I found out that Singulair has "new side effect warnings".

My direction for finding answers has always (until now) been aligned with her hearing loss. I have read every study on children with hearing loss and behavior issues that I have been able to get my hands on. Our doctor office visits are overwhelming and average 4 times a month - for all different things. We have an appointment tomorrow for new ear molds for her hearing aids and I insisted she be tested again to be sure the hearing aids are working perfectly- hoping this is the missing link. She is being tested again for allergies on April 11th to see if new ones have crept up. She is having an auditory sensory processing evaluation on April 24th, again in my search for answers. Just last week, I demanded an emergency meeting at her school and basically stood up to the entire IEP team and told them they are doing a horrible job, since I can't get them to help me figure out the problem and freak out on them for the lack of help I receive with regard to her hearing loss and the FM (microphone) system I forced the school district to put in place so she can hear the teacher's voice in the classroom, over the sounds of the other kids.

I have probably been deemed crazy by all of her doctors & their staff, her first grade teacher, and everyone at the school district that I have encountered in the past 20 months or so. So much so, that her ENT (Ear) doctor called me a week ago after a recent visit to indicate to me that he thinks that not only does my daughter need to see a therapist to figure out what is wrong, but indicated that stress has taken it's toll on me as well and offered to write a prescription for therapy if necessary! I feel like I am living in a novel which is not even my life.

For all I know, she may be have really meant it when she told us once that she used to be able to hear just fine...so I cant help but to sit here crying and wondering if there is a link to her hearing loss from the Singulair too?

To hear her say she wanted to hurt herself was the hardest thing I have ever endured in my life. And so out of her world (she is the most outgoing extrovert imaginable) that I have lost myself in a sea of unknowing doubt, anger and frustration, since she said it. My boss, colleagues, family, school district staff, several doctor office staffs and several other "specialists" whom I contacted in late night emails, begging for guidance could atest to this mad attempt of mine to find a cause.

The best moment: when we drove away from the ENT with her new hearing aids, windows down, and she said: "Mom, I can hear the wind"

Worst moment in life: hearing my 7 year old baby say she sometimes wants to hurt herself because she can't stop herself from behaving badly.

My advice: for allergies, get a sharper image ionic air purifier for the bedroom- well worth $200!!! Get hearing tests for children who "do not listen" or follow directions. STOP TAKING SINGULAIR!!!! Send your information to the FDA immediately.

I sit here in tears because I know where you have been with this "wonderful" drug. I have spent nearly this entire year complaining and fussing at my 11-year-old son constantly for everything! I have punished, grounded and even spanked due to his poor attitude and bad behavior. Now, I come to find out that it is due to medication that he is on. I feel so bad.

You have to understand, he is a great boy. He was a straight A-B student, takes guitar lessons, is in advanced classes at school, participates in the youth activities and classes at church. Since the first of the year he has become so difficult to deal with. Angry, spiteful, hateful, aggressive, depressed. You name it. I thought it was because he was 10 and hormones!! I could have lost him and not known why!!

A couple of weeks ago he was suspended from school for making a threat to another student. The principal mentioned that this was very uncharacteristic for him. Now I know why. You see, he has never been aggressive before. He is not even aggressive with his sister who is 3, until recently. His grades have dropped from mostly A's to mostly C's. He does not enjoy the things that he used to love doing. He has gained weight to 150 pounds! His teachers comment that he is a loner now when he did not use to be.

It all makes sense now. We have an appointment tomorrow at 1:45 with the allergist. He will not be taking this medication any more.

Thank you for being so honest and sharing so others like me can see that we are not going through this alone and there is a reason for this behavior. I just hope that others are able to stop this cruel drug in time before their loved ones are lost forever!! May God bless you all!!

My daughter will be 2 in June and she suffers with asthma she has been taken diff meds such as xopenex, pulmicort, orapred, and now singulair. i researched all the other meds and took her off but the asthma specialist said she needed the pulmicort and i asked her pediatrician what he thought and he prescribed singulair he said it was completely safe and i had nothing to worry about but now i am very much worried because my daughter is only 21 months old and can not tell me exactly what wrong if anything. she has only been taking this singulair since last night so it has been twice she has taken it and last night she had a nightmare. she was fussy going to bed, it took a long while to wind her down she normally falls asleep between 9 and 10 pm last night she went out around 12. her lungs r very sensitive and i want her to get better but a lot of these meds have really bad side affects and who's to say what will be the long term affects and thats what i worry about the most. i just don't know what to do and I'm very worried. i came across this site by accident but I'm glad i did cuz now i know that this is not safe to give my 21 month old daughter.

Our son is nearly six and has been on Singulair since he was 2 y/o. We put is bad behavior down to the "Terrible Two's". He has always displayed signs of poor concentration, impulsive behavior, hyper and the list goes on. Last December his PED proscribed Bactrim for a resp problem and it was just last weekend where we hit breaking point. His behavior has become aggressive along with all of the other bad behavior to the point we have been called for meetings with his new school to have a Physical assessment done.
I researched Bactrim last weekend and it was described as poison which we took him off right away and, it was pure luck i stumbled across this website to find that Singulair may be the EVIL after all.

We took him off both medications 4 days ago and we are praying we see behavioral changes soon....Already i have noticed he is more settled and relaxed while watching TV etc.

Can anyone tell me how long it takes for the medication to leave their system?

My daughter is 5 years old and has been on singulair for 1 week. i have already noticed a dramatic change in her behavior. she has become irritable, mean, nasty, and emotional. she has had me in tears on a daily basis. she has turned into a monster. we will be calling the doctor in the morning!

My son has been takiing tripeltol for over a year, he is only 11 yeard old; he has been expresing extreme aggresive behavior in the last year or so. He can not communicate very well what he is feeling, but he is in extreme disconfort (unhappy, aggressive, mad, grauchy, etc.) I am starting to believe that trileptol is the cause; he is also taking geodon and abilify, which are suppose to control bal behavior. However, nothing is helping. Am I in the rigth track believing that trileptol is the cause of his bad behavior?

I am SHOCKED this stuff is still on the market!
My dear, sweet, loving (& normally a little tempermental) 3yo daughter turned into a stark-raving lunatic on this! she was on it for 3wks along with Flovent for allergies/asthma. At first we noticed a little difference in her sleep patterns but thought it might have been the sudden good weather & loads of activity outside. Suddenly, during week 3, she developed stomach pain & fever. Vomiting began that night & intermittently through the next day. Her pain increased greatly in her stomach & back. She had no control of her emotions and she was filled with RAGE! All the while she kept pleading "Help me!, I can't do this!!". She was not eating & barely sleeping. After a few calls to the Doc, they agreed to meet us at the office on a Sunday but declared her to have a "tummy virus" & that it would pass. I knew there was something else wrong, but what? The vomiting & fever did subside by the next day but her behavior was COMPLETELY out of control! I had never seen such bad behavior out of any kid. She couldn't behave(or stop screaming) even when she wanted to. I prayed God would give me the answer & it just popped in my head...singulair. Sure enough, checking the trusty web, I was able to find tons of info which confirmed this. As I called the Doc the next day they said stop the singulair & let her recover from the "tummy bug" & restart singulair in 2 wks. They weren't convinced it was totally to blame & wanted to give it another try. OVER MY DEAD BODY will my little girl take that stuff again. Parents you know your kids, trust your instincts & just tell the docs NO!
We are now 4 days from her last dose & already we see a huge change in her. She is sweet & loving again with no more pain, no out of control behavior,and she is sleeping soundly again.
Mark my words, this will be one of those drugs we read about in the news along with all those others rushed to the market that end up destoying lives. Thanks for the encouragement & knowing we are not alone in this. Bless you M&S