Celexa symptoms and conditions

Taking nicomide while taking Celexa and a b-complex for hair and nails. I read somewhere that nicotinamide may have anxiolytic effect. Not sure if this combination of vit B3 along with the other B vitamins and an SSRI is causing the SSRI to be less or more effective, but have experienced I think a tranquilizing effect, more noticeable at night. But at the same time I feel some depression and anxiety so I wonder if the Celexa concentration is being decreased secondary to the vitamins. I will stop taking all B vitamins for a few days and see how I feel. My work environment lately has been more stressful, too, so it's hard to say what exactly is going on. But will stop all B vits and see how I feel.

I started on 40mg of Celexa in 2002 for depression/anxiety. In 2006, my wife told me she "didn't think it was working anymore" and I should go talk to our doctor about switching. We talked and he switched me to Effexor. No, I'm not blaming him!
After dealing with the massive increase in sweating (at the time I was running a custom A/V installation business including new construction. It was nothing for me to change shirts, underwear and socks 2 or 3 times a day in the 100 deg summer heat!) gaining 40 lbs, watching my cholesterol shoot up to 290 and my bp to 160/120, I decided I'd had enough and went back 1 month ago to talk about quitting. He shrugged, asked why, gave me a scrip for 37.5's, told me to "take them for a couple weeks, then start lengthening the days in between". And "oh yeah, you'll probably feel a little crummy for a week or so after you stop completely".
A LITTLE CRUMMY???
The brain zaps are unbelievable and by far the worst symptom for me so far. Turn your head like you have a plate balanced up there or pay the consequences, right? I had a couple 37's left and that little voice kept telling me to "go ahead, take one, it's ok." I finally flushed the last 3 or 4 pills down the toilet today to prevent me going back at all. (It's ok folks, you won't end up drinking my pills. I'm on septic and way up on the side of a mountain far from any water table.) I can't believe all the data/opinions I've read today on "SSRI Discontinuation Syndrome". Truly unbelievable stuff. With God's grace and my family's support, I know I'll join the ranks of those that have been able to leave this rat poison behind me. One zap at a time, right? ;-)

I hate Effexor XR. I don't really know how long I have been on this medicine because I have almost no short term memory since I have been taking it. I am so hot all the time it's just unbearable. I am sweating when my house temp is 68 degrees. I freeze everyone out of the house, out of the car, etc., because I am never comfortable. I no longer own a winter coat because I don't need one unless it is below zero. I don't own any long sleeve shirts except for a denim one in which I wear as my jacket. I wear short sleeve I have discussed this with my doctor whom always tells me he doesn't think the medicine is the cause of this. Although every time he increases the strength I'm taking, the sweating intensifies. I also wake up in the middle of the night gasping for breath, with an irregular heartbeat and/or my heart beat soaring. I have also experienced the problem with taste. Many things I used to love to eat or drink are no longer tolerable. Nothing tastes quite right. I too have had the dry mouth/cotton-throat problems. I have noticed my emotions are screwed up also. I can hardly cry about the most saddest things I have faced, but will cry about stupid things that don't truly matter. I worry about everything, and I DO mean EVERYTHING, luckily it doesn't last too long because nothing can hold my train of thought for very long. My doc has had me on Zoloft, Celexa and others and there were problems with those also. But I feel that Effexor XR is the worst one I have been on that has caused so many other problems while helping the depression/anxiety disorder. I think the bad outweighs the good, but my doctor refuses to agree with me on this and I have no health insurance to take my problem elsewhere. I have never taken Xanax, Valium or any other "controlled" substances because my doc is afraid of his patients becoming addicted to these drugs. Although Effexor XR is apparently addicting too since you have to be weened off of it. I wish I had NEVER begun to take Effexor XR, good luck to all of you that do! If I knew then what I know now, I would NEVER take it!

I have been on celexa for 4 days I know its not a long enough time for the meds to "kick In" but i am terrified and waiting for something bad to happen. I have struggled with terrible panic attacks since my pregnancy in o6-07 and they have lingered on and gotten worse. I was ok and happy to finally take the initiative to get better, I don't like even taking Tylenol so tis is a big deal for me. I was prescribed 10mg and have been only taking 5 of the 10 to wean myself into this drug.. I wish i could know what to expect and all i feel is nauseous, weird and shaky and last night i couldn't fall back to sleep i felt a lil dizzy is this normal?? I hope i don't have any vision loss also!

I have been on Celexa (citalopram) for about 13 months. I took it at night, starting with 10mg and over time worked up to 60mg which is the max. dose. My doctor switched me to Lexapro and then Cymbalta to see if they worked better, but eventually I ended up back on Celexa, that seemed to be best. I did gain about 35 pounds on it, though and was still going, along with absolutely NO sex drive whatsoever. When my husband could finally coax me into it, I couldn't orgasm at all. I finally begged him to even stop trying, the attempts seemed to annoy me. This wasn't me, so I slowly tried weaning off of it. First down to 40, then 20, then 10.

so here's my question: I've been completely off of it for 3 days now and I'm still feeling dizzy, lightheaded, have indigestion, headaches, etc. The other times I was off of it, I went right on another med, so I didn't seem to notice the side effects. Anyone who has been taken off of Celexa, PLEASE respond and let me know how long these awful effects last? I have a 2 year old I have to care for and she doesn't understand why mommy feels "woozy" all the time.

My son was born March 2007, when he was 8wks old, to much of my surprise I found out that I was pregnant again. Mirena sounded perfect!!!! I had it placed 7 weeks after my 2nd son was born in Jan 2008. I had what I still assume is normal with any type of birth control method, irregular bleeding,cramping,some slight mood swings. That all seems normal to me when you mess with you body like that. Aug 1, 2008 I woke up at4am with awful abdominal pain sooo bad that I turned to my husband and said that I think I have to go to the hospital. I decided that if I could fall back asleep then its probably nothing major. I fell back asleep (or passed out, I don't know) The next morning I was hurting so bad I couldn't lift anything, couldn't stand up straight, felt weak and felt as though I had rocks in my stomach but had an empty feeling at the same time. The pain was all over my abdomen, stabbing, shooting,pinching. I also had pain aroung my belly button and a noticeable discomfort about my pevic bone. Finally I called my husband to come home, went to the hospital, they took blood, cultures, did an exam and did a ctscan. All normal! WHAT!! Aug 11th still having pain and now having MAJOR HOT FLASHES. I find myself getting so hot and irritated that I cant be around the babies because I am afraid I will yell at them. If I get in a little disagreement with my husband it will most likely end with me saying I want a divorce (I noticed another lady with that same problem) Today I had a ultra sound done and it came back what my (new) doctor says is normal. The problem with that is that one of my ovaries is split and is NOW shaped like a horse-shoe. I was pregnant for almost 2yrs straight and had lots of ultrasounds NOT ONE TIME did anyone say anything about a odd ovary. I'm just going to make a educated guess that it wasn't deformed till after the Mirena. Now I am wanting to remove it but feel like I should get every test known to man first to rule out any other possibility. I really don't want to remove it. I am afraid of getting it removed and even more of getting pregnant when I already have two 10 months apart and still in diapers.
My biggest question is wanting to know if hot flashes are related or if I might be having something else going on. Am I the only one with he hot flashes? I have them all day long!!!!!!!!
Also I noticed after reading other post that some other things may be related like, piercing headaches, itchy flaky oily scalp, weight gain, ear drainage, lower back pain, oily skin, increased smoking, in-grown hairs in inner thigh area, joint pain, fatigue, decrease sex drive.

I love Wellbutrin! I've tried many other anti-depressants: zoloft, effexor, cymbalta, generic wellbutrin (budeprion, NOT the same! don't let your insurance make you get the generic for this one!), and celexa. This is by far the best. I gained 35 lbs when I went on cymbalta (in just 4 months!) and within 3 months of starting wellbutrin, I've lost 25 of it. Most importantly, I'm hardly ever depressed now (and when I am, there's a reason for it, unlike before). I also have so much more energy! Unmediated and on the other anti-depressants I was sleeping over 10 hours a day between naps and regular night-time sleeping and I was still tired all the time. Now I can feel perfectly rested on the normal 7-8 hours a night, without needing naps as often. I also don't get headaches on the name-brand Wellbutrin like I did when I was on budeprion.

I have been taking Budeprion for about two months now. At first I don't know anything about the side effects. I thought the feeling of being tired all the time is just normal for someone who is suffering from depression. But day after day I started to have a feeling of weakness on my muscles especially my arms. And I also noticed that I get easily irritated and short tempered.
My doctor switched my medication from Celexa to Bude. This was because I told him that when I was having sex, I just keep on going but never having an ejaculation during the time I was taking Celexa. Now my ejaculation was back to where it was before, after switching to Budeprion. I can tolerate the feeling of having tired muscles but not the feeling of not having an ejaculation during intercourse.

I too have experience a late period, 11 days late so far. In addition, I am having extreme nausea. I thought maybe I was pregnant, I took 3 tests and all are negative. I have been on the Wellbutrin for 1 month now and am not really thrilled with the results. Actually, I find it's not helping at all.

I was on Celexa for about 6 months and loved it with 2 exceptions. Hair loss and a huge loss of my sex drive.

My thought is that none of these drugs are without side effects...there is no free ride.

Anyone else have similar experiences with Wellbutrin?

One 37.5 mg Effexor XR and I thought I was a dead woman. I was BURNING HOT for 12 hours. I had a massive headache and I felt like I swallowed a brick my stomach hurt so bad. I was vomiting and trembling bad. Doc said he would consider that an allergic reaction and prescribed Celexa, which took 3 days to make me hypermania and I almost called 911 when my G.I. tract started burning. So this week he gives me Cymbalta, what is he NUTS? He let me try a small amount of xanax which doesn't give me side effects, it just releases that feeling of impending doom that I have 24/7. He says I can't have any more though, it might get me addicted. I can't imagine it being worse than what I have found online about SSRI's.

HI I AM 37 YEARS OLD AND 1 WEEK AGO I WENT TO THE DR FOR HEADACHES EVERY DAY, AND MY DR TOLD ME IT HAD TO BE DUE TO STRESS, BECAUSE MY BLOOD TEST AND PAP SMERE CAME BACK NORMAL AND I WAS PERFECTLY HEALTHY. SHE PRESCRIBED CELEXA AND SAID THIS SHOULD HELP. ALL OF A SUDDEN I HAVE NO SEX DRIVE, HEADACHES, NAUSEA, DIZZY, LOSS OF APPETITE, SHORT OF BREATH, MOUTH IS DRY, VERY EMOTIONAL, MY WHOLE BODY ACHES. IM GOING TO THE DR. AND HAVING HER TAKE ME OFF I WOULD RATHER JUST HAVE THE HEADACHES. DOES ANY ONE ELS HAVE THESE SYMPTOMS?????

This medicine should be taken off the market immediately!! I am 30 yo and have been taking Yaz since September of 07. I have had such bad panic attacks, anxiety, nausea, gall bladder disease, and a laundry list of other odd effects that have taken over my body. I have been told by my doctor that I am depressed and was prescribed Xanax for those attacks that come out of nowhere and as of the other day he prescribed Celexa, which I took one dose of as directed and it put me over the edge. It was not until I read posts on this web site that I realize this Yaz pill is what has done this to me. I am reading all these comments from other women on this site and I feel like I am looking into a mirror. I had such a bad panic/anxiety attack this weekend I ended up in the ER and when I told the doctor I took Yaz he of course had never even heard of it which I guess is normal as it is not a med that is prescribed on an ER basis but regardless, I have stopped taking it and hopefully will be on my road to recovery. I hope someone else out there reads this and finds some peace with them self that you are in fact NOT crazy the medicine you are taking is.

I have been taking Wellbutrin 200mg daily for about 2 weeks. I have taken prozac, which made me very violent, I've taken paxil and quit taking it when I got pregnant, and I've taken Zoloft, which worked wonderfully for me. Then, there is the Wellbutrin. When I first started it, I was tired and out-of-it. I figured I would give it a few days for my body to adjust. Now, I am tired, out-of-it, restless, annoyed at everyone, don't want to be touched, nervous, scared, emotional roller coaster, constant headache, muscle aches, stomach upset, smells are very pronounced, and to top it off, I thought I could quit smoking....but turns out I want to smoke more, however, they taste like crap, and smell even worse! I think I am going back to the doctor to switch back to zoloft. Wish I would have never started taking Wellbutrin!

Hi. I went on Lamictal April 2007 after being diagnosed w/ BiPolar. The key issue that brought me to the psychiatrist to begin with was acute depression following a divorce, move cross country, losing my job and my only son going off to college. All the big stress factors - short of death in family. Nonetheless, I was nervous that one year after all these crises that I was, if anything, feeling worse. I had been able to handle all the changes during them, but now that they were over all I wanted to do was sleep all day.... Anyway, I had been on Paxil for years re anxiety, and my psychiatrist decided to keep my on the Paxil till I tolerated the Lamictal, then get me off the Paxil..... Well, the 20 mg of Paxil and the 100 mg of Lamictal worked great, I thought; the Lamictal really raised the bottom.... BUT, apparently Paxil fuels mania, so after a few months, I was taken off the Paxil completely and my Lamictal went up to 200 mg. Almost IMMEDIATELY upon going to 200 mg Lamictal my ankles / feet / legs got enormously swollen. Plus, I noticed that my hair started to fall out // thin out.... Plus -- and I don't know if this is the Lamictal or the absence of the Paxil, but I sob uncontrollably almost 24/7. The sobbing and anxiety and sense of dread and sadnessness has persisted even when the Lamictal was dropped to 100 mg and the shrink added first Clonazepam .5 mg, then when that wasn't calming me, changed me to 1mg Xanax -- each as needed. The Xanax isn't helping me either, and now I also feel paranoid. So, in short: Lamictal at 200 mg makes my feet / ankles / legs swell or suffer edema; Lamcital as low as 100 mg makes my hair thin out; and either the Lamictal or the loss of the Paxil or these anti-anxieity meds (Clonazepam or Xanax) are making me paranoid, profoundly sad and depressed, panicked, anxious, stressed out and, most urgently, make me sob uncontrollably 24/7... My shrink says that we should use anti-depressants with bipolar, and that Paxil fuels the mania, but I tell you, I'd rather be manic and screaming at everyone than so depressed that I'm fearful and sobbing constantly.... Any answers out there: Any anti-depressants for your bipolar?

I'm an 18 year old male and I've been taking Singulair for years; I don't even remember when I started taking it. I've had chronic sinusitis my whole life, and use a Singulair 10mg/ Allegra 180mg combo to control it. I never gave it a second thought. From my adolescent years on, I've been able to sleep (if undisturbed) for 15, 16+ hours a night, and have always felt like I was in a fog during everyday life. Getting out of bed has always been a terrible problem for me.

Throughout high school, I became progressively more depressed and apathetic toward school work, to the point where I dropped a number of classes my junior year. Got put on Prozac for a while, it helped a great deal with the depression, and seemed to give me enough energy to get through the week. I discontinued it after a year or so, everything was going okay (aside from mood swings and tiredness- explained away as symptoms of my age/hormones/going to bed too late), and then I went to college.

I had a mild depression that I think most people get upon leaving home for the first time, but the real problem was anxiety; I had a number of anxiety attacks, and decided to transfer to a school closer to home. I started Celexa and therapy- the celexa seems to take the edge off, but I fear its making me even more tired than before.

I've just heard about the whole Singulair controversy, and I am not taking it from here on out. I really hope that this whole ordeal was brought on primarily by the Singulair. After a month or two, I'll repost to report whether the symptoms went away.

My name is Bobby and I've been dating a girl who has been through some tough times. She took my advice and started taking an antidepressant, Celexa, 5 weeks ago. 3 Weeks after starting the Celexa, we began to have the relationship I always knew we could. I love her so much and for one week I was the Happiest man in the world.
Unfortunately, against my advice she started taking Yaz a week after beginning the Celexa. I told her that beginning two new drugs at once will eliminate the ability to identify which drug is causing which affects whether they be positive or negative.
After 3 weeks of Celexa and 2 weeks of Yaz, my girlfriend started acting alive and excited about life again!! She even started losing weight because of her beautiful new-found energy and zest for everything. She was playful, she was laughing, she was sexual, she was the girl of my dreams and we fell more in love than ever.
One week later (After 4 weeks of Celexa, and after 3 weeks of Yaz) a monster emerged who no longer can stand the sight of me. She doesn't want me to touch her, hug her, or even kiss her. She doesn't sleep at night. She screams and yells at me for being annoying when I'm doing things that once made her smile with love in her eyes.
I found an apartment today and decided to move out... I have never been treated so poorly by anyone in my life before. She's aggressive and verbally abusive. She's been complaining that people are talking about her and she seems paranoid. I made the mistakes of taking steroids a while back and I can tell you she is the monster now that I was then and both Yaz and steroids affect hormone levels and I'm telling you I just can't believe how many relationships this drug must be ruining.
Tonight I took the Yaz and threw all of it out. She got mad at me because she's afraid that she'll stop losing weight... I mean she's just completely lost perspective. I showed her pictures of us happy together and she still chose losing 3 more pounds over our relationship. I'm losing my mind... Just a few weeks ago she reminded me again that she wants to marry me and give me babies. Where has my future wife and future mother of my children gone??

I'M LIVING IN FEAR THAT SHE WILL FIND A WAY TO GET MORE YAZ B4 SHE'S BEEN OFF LONG ENOUGH TO SEE WHAT IT'S TURNED HER INTO.

SOMEBODY PLEASE HELP!!!
******

I just started Celexa 2 weeks ago, and so far it is making me very tired. I am taking it for pms symptoms like irritability and anxiety. The first night I took celexa, it made me very sick. I had terrible diarrhea, I was sweating, extremely dizzy, and finally spent about 2 hours vomitting. My doctor then said to take only 1/2 of a pill (10mg) for 3 days with food, and then take the whole pill (20mg) after several days if I can tolerate the 10mg. So now I have been taking the 20mg at night for about 2 weeks, and I haven't felt anything different except that I'm extremely tired all the time. I could literally sleep for 16 hours a day if I could. I usually run in the mornings, but I am too tired for any exercise. I just have no energy, Will this get any better? If I don't get my energy back in the next couple weeks, I am going to stop taking it.

My son 10, has been on Singulair since he was 4 yrs old for Asthma and allergies. His last dose was 3/26/08. He has always been my emotional child, he is 2yrs older than this younger brother. Some of his side effects included headaches, stomaches, leg cramps, emotional breakdowns, major mood swings, crying outbursts over small situations, night sweats, lack of motivation, weight gain, ADHD, wishing he were dead and the list goes on. His younger brother has always been involved in sports but he was always too afraid he would get hurt. This medication has robbed my 10 yr old son from 6 yrs of his childhood. Since he has been off Singulair he feels motivated and looks forward to joining the football team his younger brother plays for. I look forward to meeting this new young man who for so long has been hiding behind this so called allergy medicine. I am so thankful to know that my son can look forward to a bright future without these side effects. God Bless you all who are going through this as well.

My 8 year old son was started on Concerta a few months ago, has severe ADHD & Bipolar Disorder Type 2. He has become more agitated, very short fuse with 7 year old brother, hallucinations - visual of a movie thats coming out - kinda like a harry potter but more creepy, but I'm not sure if it is the concerta or the combo w/ his celexa and risperdal. I increased his risperdal from .75 mg to 1 mg, and it seems to help. He has alot of personal things going on also that could be contributing, any ideas if this could be the concerta or the combo? His Dr is having us get an MRI and a Neurophysical exam to rule out anything physical causing the effects, wants to cover all bases before changing meds. Any feedback welcome (he has been on the celexa and risperdal for a few years now and I know they are not the cause, I have extensive experience with these two meds, just not the concerta) We have also tried Strattera, but it made him too sleepy as it is a non stimulant. Thank you

Wow. I am so relieved to find people like me ! I got the IUD when my son was 6 weeks old and It has been over a year and a half. ( I cannot take regular birth control because it affects my blood pressure)I thought everything was great with it at first- no period- no fuss. but when you have a new baby you are just exhausted and your body does weird stuff anyway. Most of the symptoms I noticed started in the last 2 months. I did not contribute them to the IUD because I have hypothyroidism and I thought my meds needed adjusted. I have not been able to lose weight despite trying- VERY FRUSTRATING! I was exhausted a lot of the time- sleeping 9 or 10 hours a night and still tired. My hair was falling out but not an extreme amount- I started having dizzy spells- No Sex drive- yuck! and I had spotting for over 2 weeks. So I had my thyroid checked and all was well and all I could think was " what the heck is wrong with me?!?!?!" and I found this site. Luckily I had the IUD removed 2 days ago because we are going to try again for a baby- I have felt ok- the first day I was still tired and I had an extreme nosebleed which I have never had before?!?!?! You know I think it is just safest to use natural methods of birth control cause all this medication can really mess you up!

Where do I start? For as far back as I can remember, I have been taking antidepressants. I have tried them all. Celexa, Wellbutrin, Effexor, Cymbalta, etc.. About 3 years ago, I crashed. You all know what that feels like. I went to see the "pill doctor" which is what I call the psychiatrists. He prescribed more antidepressants, Lithium 600mg per day along with Lamictal 200 mg per day for moods and Ambien CR-12.5mg to sleep. Side effects included, weight loss and gain, hair loss, memory loss, confusion, thyroid issues, no sex drive and sleeping too much with wako dreams. BUT is was better than what I was feeling at time. Last month I could not take it any more so I had a second opinion by another Pill Dr. Oh my God! This Pill Dr REALLY opened my eyes. He diagnosed me with a resistant to antidepressant type of depression. No bipolar but mood disorders. He warned me off of Cymbalta 60mg to 30mg to 0mg (antidepressant), and took me off the Lithium and increased my dose of Lamictal from 200mgs per day to 300mgs per day. What a difference it made. I have never felt better. I am sleeping less, have more energy and a much more positive outlook on life. I am scared that this won't last but I hope it will. Lamictal has been a godsend for me. My lesson is get a second opinion on your condition. A fresh set of eyes can see things that others don't.

I also have to remember that every case is unique. Every person has their own set of problems to deal with. Kids are emotionally demanding and draining. You are not different from others who suffer.

I was prescribed this drug earlier this week as I suffer with GAD (generalized anxiety disorder) I told my new doctor that I've tried other antidepressants for my disorder and found them to either make myn anxiety worse or I get nauseous. He told me to take 10 mgs. to start and take that for a week and then increase the dose to 20 mgs. The first day night I took this drug I awoke at 4 am wanting to climb the walls. My anxiety was so bad I couldn't take it. I took 15 mgs. Valium but it did nothing for me. I took every herbal thing I had in my cabinet in hopes of getting rid of the horrible anxiety.....it was unbearable and I was on the verge of panic. I will NEVER take another one of these pills. I am so tired of doctors who write prescriptions without a care as to how it is going to affect their patient. It's not them that has to deal with the side effects. And I was told to continue taking the drug as the side effect will go away. He's nuts. I can't function with anxiety that was that bad. I give up!

I have been on Topamax for a little over a year. I've had most of the side effects; tingling, numbness in the fingers, dry mouth, forgetfulness, and weight loss - love the weight loss. All the side effects have sort of slowed down as I've been on the medication longer. The weight loss has slowed and I've even began to get my appetite back- I'm afraid I'm going to start gaining weight now! I've lost about 40 pounds and I needed to lose it, so that was wonderful. I've had a very hard time losing weight all my life so this was wonderful.

I was addicted to Coca Cola and this med also helped me kick that habit because I lost my taste for the carbonation.

Does anyone know if the weight loss usually evens out after about a year or a year and a half? I need to lose about 30 more pounds and was hoping that I would continue losing weight!

Anyway, I was on the Topamax for headaches and it has completely helped that! It has truly been a God-send for me. Other than monthly hormone headaches, I don't get migraines hardly at all!

I am wondering about having my doc up my dosage for the weight loss aspect????

I was on Celexa for about 5 weeks for panic attacks and anxiety but wasn't getting much better. My doctor switched me to Zoloft, I was on it about 10 days but I decided to discontinue it yesterday because it was causing extreme drowsiness, horrific headaches, weird crying spouts, and more anxiousness. Today, the first day being off Zoloft is harsh, I was in bed half the day and I feel like I'm in a dream and the headache is still there. Although , its about 630pm now and I feel a little better than earlier but not much. Hopefully tomorrow will be better? I'm also on Ativan.

I'm 49yr old male just started taking Depakote, 1000mg a day. Bipolar, which I was just diagnose with. I've had depression for years, Prozac, etc the usual suspects.
I've been on Depakote 10days now, along with Cymbalta 60mg which I started 18days ago(I was on Celexa 30mg) New doc and therapist also helped. I've already taken a complete 180, and I mean within a matter of days I feel like there is hope and a future again. May be Cymbalta/Depakote combo? Whatever it is I have no complaints. I actually feel TOO GOOD? If that's my problem I have no problems. No appetite increase/hair?- hey, I'm 50yrs old, who cares...