Doctors and nurses symptoms and conditions

Folks, I was on this standard diuretic for about 6 years or so. For a very long time, I did not think it was causing any significant side effects (other than having to pee a lot). I was wrong. It gave me type II diabetes.

If you ask MOST doctors and nurses about this, they will deny it strenuously. As one very good PA told me, "diuretics are our first line of defense." An RN just two weeks ago thought I was crazy to blame my diabetes on it.

But it is not my imagination. The ALLHAT study -- which, if you cite, will cause most docs and nurses to shut up right fast -- is one of the most famous studies out there. It was huge, and its authors became strong proponents of diuretics. But the same study found that if you take HCTZ for five years, you have about a 12.6% chance of developing diabetes (versus perhaps a 1 to 2% chance otherwise). I am so angry about this because no one warned me. No one told me this, so I could never make an informed decision about taking this medication. Now I will be fighting diabetes for the rest of my life!

I haven't looked at the insert for HCTZ in a long time, so for all I know they're now finally listing blood sugar issues. But they said nothing when I started in 2002, and no one bothered monitoring by blood sugar either. Even when we finally noticed the glucose readings going up, no one said, "Oh, we should take you off that diuretic."

If you do some googling, you'll discover that there are a (minority) of doctors out there who are also very concerned about this. They argue a lot at forums for doctors. This business about diabetes IS a known side-effect. It's just, as I said, that too few doctors seem to be aware of it, or if they are, seem to feel the need to inform their patients before prescribing it.

-After seeing this website and several others, I made the decision to have the IUD removed, and I couldn't have been more excited and happier to do so. There was no pain when it was removed, and it was very quick. The doctors and nurses that I spoke to about the Mirena, really could have cared less to what I had to say about it. They removed it, and then left the room...yeah, I felt really cared for. Needless to say, I was extremely moody and began my period 1 day after having it removed. I felt a sense of normalcy by having my period, and my body was functioning as it should. It has now been a week and I feel extremely better, although I was told it would take several weeks for the hormone to leave the system. I really am outraged at our health care, and it's physicians, it would be nice to be informed of potential side effects that can occur. But most of the docs will tell you that it can't possibly the mirena, even though you felt normal before insertion, and it is the only foreign thing in your body...Remove it if you have one, don't let it get the best of you..Good luck

I have been getting Kenalog injections on and off since I was a teenager. I am now 38 years old. I get these injections about once a year and depending on how bad my allergies get, sometimes twice a year. It is the ONLY MEDICATION that I have ever been able to take that has completely relieved my allergy symptoms. I to have got the "dents" into my skin at the injection sites, which over time have resolved on their own. My hips ache as well but fortunately only just sometimes. Exercise relieves the pain. I am a nurse and know full well the "adverse" side effects from this medication and am reminded by my physician every time I go for the injection. The misery of dealing with my seasonal allergies when nothing either prescription or over the counter helps makes me incredibly grateful for this medication. Everyone will react differently to every medication. People need to realize that it will not work for everyone and there are serious side effects. That is when YOU need to decide if the risks are worth the potential benefits. For me they are, every year I dread spring and summer and will dread it even more if the FDA pulls this drug.

OMG!! This is insane, I thought I was going crazy, I started YAZ about 2 weeks ago, I usually try to maintain healthy and workout a lot, but in 2 weeks i gained like 10 lbs out of nowhere!!! I am freaking out! I completely lost sex drive and as well as other said completely dry, nothing can make me wet, I also notice that I started getting a really heavy discharge everyday, Oh and depression (mood swings, snap at everything I feel like I don't want to live anymore, I don't care for my job as I used to or school...I feel helpless) I stopped YAZ 2 days ago and so far i haven't notice any change...I am still very moody and SSSOOOO tired, I can sleep all day and all night with no problem and when I do try to get up is like a magnet that's keeping me in bed, its awful!!! When does it get better???? Anybody knows??? I am falling apart!!! HELP PLEASE!!!

Oh my goodness.....my daughter, age 17, had her first injection in June 2008, started losing her hair w/in a month. We thought it was form straightening, some high lightening etc. She had blood work done which showed she was anemic...strange, as 2yrs prior her blood work was stellar, and she had not changed her diet, or physical activity. She increased her iron and protein intake (along w/ supplements).....three months later, and after her second injection, iron was still anemic....worse actually, and her hair loss significant.I found this website last night....and I am floored......I called MERCK today and spoke to a representative wh o was not aware of the hair loss issue, but said that in their case studies, Autoimmune Hemolytic Anemia was a side effect.....which leads to hair loss itself.....so I am researching now what to do next.....anyone else have this issue??????

THIS IS A HORRIBLE DANGEROUS DRUG!!!!!
Doctors prescribed this to my mother for 5 years!!!! Because of it's devastating side effects it is FDA approved for short term 4-12 weeks and only as a last resort. And NEVER for Parkinson's patients. It is unclear if Reglan caused the Parkinson's like symptoms or if she had it prior. Either way the doctor was so wrong to prescribe this medication to her. She is completely disabled can't walk or even get out of a chair had a auto accident and falls one time a metal frame fell on her head causing a hospital visit another time she fell into cactus! I was horrified to learn that no one caught this error. Not one doctor or the drug store told my parents REGLAN could cause her to end up using a walker and unable to function even the simplest daily tasks and that these symptoms could be permanent.

I have been taking Lamictal since October of 2007. I experienced some of the symptoms (muscle pain in the head and neck) before I started the medication. I have experienced panic attacks since July of 2005. I have had mild heart palpations since I was in my mid 20's (I'm 36 now). I have had what I would consider a below normal energy level since my mid 20's also. Ok so like everyone else I am thinking I'm a hypochondriac! However, I was diagnosed August 28th 2007 with having Lyme’s Disease and also Hyper-Thyroid (same time, same lab-work). Two weeks later I was diagnosed with Bi-Polar Disorder (this is one thing I knew I was battling but didn't know how to handle it). My physiatrist started me on Lamictal and I did the standard ramp up to 200mg. I also was started on a 90 day treatment of Dyoxicycline for the Lyme’s and Methimazole for the Hyper-Thyroid. I was very very weak and was only able to stay awake for short periods of time (4 to 5 hours max). Just an fyi, I am not overweight, lazy or unmotivated. I have the physical appearance of perfect health. This, I think works against me as the Dr's seem to think I'm just whining. Mater of fact; my Primary Care Physician never tested me for Lyme’s. I went to an Urgent Care Center which tested me for Lyme’s disease and I came back positive (they also tested my Thyroid levels and found the problem with my THS levels) I told my Dr the results and he insisted I have same test done again. Guess what, new tests, same results.
My symptoms today are very similar to what I have seen posted many times. Muscle pain (entire body, some areas worse than others), heart arrhythmia, racing heartbeat, intense palpitations, nausea, foggy “un-plugged” mind, fatigue, weak muscles, muscle cramping (especially after repetitive motion, such as strumming a guitar), panic attacks (much more severe) and the latest addition to the group, Insomnia. Muscles pain in my head, fore-head, jaw, temple, neck (front and back), shoulders, is terrible to say the least. The pressure in my fore-head (right under my brow) makes me feel like I need to close my eyes or rest (resting does not relieve anything). The front of my neck is so tight at times it feels like my jaw is being pried down. I could go on and on.
On my quest to find out what else is going on with my body I have had 2 Echocardiogram’s on my heart and abdomen, 2Nuclear Stress Tests, blood work out the wa-zoo, MRI of my brain, 2 CT’s of my Head and Neck, Chest X-rays, Endoscopy, Colonoscopy, and all revealing nothing.
Most doctor’s I have encountered seem to want to treat the symptoms, not the problem/disease. I believe I know why; we (the ones who are there for solutions) tell them what the symptoms are (how we feel). We of course are thinking “this will help with a diagnosis of the problem/disease”, when in fact (I feel); the doctor’s thought process stops there. They don't know what’s wrong with you but they do know what your symptoms are so....bingo, let's treat the symptoms. Don’t misunderstand what I am saying. I’m not saying, “Most doctor’s don’t know what they are doing” or “don’t take your meds”. I am saying you and I are one of the 20 to 30 patients most doctor’s see daily (100+ weekly). They may be caring and good people but they are just as human and fallible as you and I. My advice is this; (and I am taking my own advice) don’t always “pop” into your body what the doctor suggests/prescribes, without doing your own research. Heck most of us won’t buy a car or more importantly, send our kids off to a college with out doing your own research (we just don’t trust those shinny brochures). Your body and your health are worth you doing your own research. Just keep in mind, Pharmaceutical Reps are always at your Dr.’s office (sit in the waiting room for 10 minutes and I’m sure you will see one). Reps are paid to do one thing; encourage (push) the Dr.’s to promote use of the Pharmaceutical Companies drugs.
My wife and I have been doing our own research on Lamictal (after a year of taking this stuff) and the side effects associated with this drug. We have searched through many (many,many) web sites for information and we have talked with pharmacists and Dr’s for opinions. Although I’m am not thoroughly convinced that Lamictal is the cause of all of my symptoms, my wife and I have decided to lower my Lamictal slowly from 200mg to 100mg. I am now taking 150mg daily (three days now) and plan on staying at this level for a total of two weeks before lowering to 100mg. I do fear dropping the dosage to quickly (potential side effects) or lapsing into a mania. To help avoid a manic episode my wife and my immediate family are all “up-to-date” with my course of action. They are on “Red Alert” and have promised to keep a close eye on my behavior patterns and moods. (I don't want to put them through another hyper-mania episode, its much too devastating). I do want so badly to feel healthy and alive again and at this point I am rather frustrated with the Dr.'s ability to help me achieve this goal. Remember it is called “Practicing” Medicine. So now I’m going to practice a little, very carefully and cautiously.
As a foot note; I have recently (past two weeks) been re-tested for Lyme's with a negative response. I am keeping in mind Lyme's test are very inaccurate (still hoping this one is accurate). My thyroid is under control and normal, so.... let's see if dropping below 150mg of Lamictal will eliminate some of these other symptoms. I will keep you posted.
Erik

This is very near and dear to me-- my cousin's husband just died and they believe it was from contaminated heparin and on top of that, I am also a secretary at a medical malpractice firm and I have been talking to clients who have gotten very sick after using heparin. Sounds like all of you have experienced some side effects, but its hard to tell whether or not they were related to the other drugs or procedures that were going on. My first suggestion is to DOCUMENT EVERYTHING. This stuff is bad news. I'm not a lawyer, but I work for lawyers that do this and I am in contact daily with the doctors and nurses that work for the firm. I would be more than happy to help if you have any legal questions. Just email me and I will do what I can.

I think that I can get my head around certain things and try to explain to you that medications do not work for all people or affect all people the same way. Well, that sounds simple enough to say - DUH. But, it is actually quite complicated chemically. Human beings are not chemically the same because we have variations in our genes. Would you be surprised to learn that about 60% of adverse drug reactions involve certain chemicals (in some cases enzymes) that we already know what these chemicals or enzymes are and what the variants are among populations groups? Some times we can predict who would have an adverse reaction to what medications if we knew what gene subgroup the patient was part of. We could also predict whether the patient would metabolize a drug at the same speed as others or not. Metabolize means utilize the drug and then discard the by-products--mostly the liver is the recycling center of chemical waste. Anything that the liver cannot re-use, the kidneys gets rid of in the urine. Speed of metabolism is a very important thing because people who are slow metabolizers might actually experience over-dose. There are other differences caused by genes that can cause different reactions according to the individual person.

I am interesting in following this site because I am wondering if the concept is flawed meaning that other parts of the body were ignored at the expense of controlling asthma and allergies of the nasal passages and lungs. OR - is there just a problem that relates to genetic differences in something such as enzymes and certain populations groups do just fine on Singulair with no problems and other people have some awful problems?

This isn't my area. But, sadly, if I can spend two weeks looking at this and come up with at least a road map of what I am looking for to answer some important questions then people who do this for Merck already know the answers. Why do I say that? Because, the adverse side effects (major categories) correspond to important areas of leukotriene receptor location and activity. Maybe not necessarily this receptor but part of a chemical process that involves this receptor.

The bottom line is that Singulair is the wrong medication for anyone that has adverse reactions. OR, there is a problem regarding the dosage that involves how fast the patient metabolizes the medication. Considering that there is a link to psychiatric adverse drugs reactions in Singulair and some medications for depression are linked to differences in metabolism due to enzymes, then there could be possibly something important to be learned from Singulair adverse drug reactions.

The biggest problem is that pharmaceutical companies are not properly communicating with the doctors who prescribe their medications. Why not communicate to doctors to look out for side effects and be aware that there are gene variations among people that are directly linked to how the patient might respond to the medication?

What happens if the patient belongs to the gene group that will have problems? If the pharm company does not tell the doctor to be on the alert, then the doctor tells the patient that it is not the drug that is causing the problem. Then the gene groups with the problems, go on the war path.

oh my god!! I have ALL of the same side effects as you do! The only strange thing is that I've been on this pill for 2 1/2 years now and I loved it up until this past week. I missed a pill on Fri so I took two on Saturday night...within 2 hours I was crying hysterically and having a full blow anxiety attack. it was so strange and scary. It came out of nowhere! then i woke up Sunday morning and cried every hour...I've never been like that in my entire life!!!! Now 4 days later my heart keeps "fluttering" (i don't know how else to describe it), I feel like i've been living in a fog...I thought i was going crazy! I am a 23 year old, healthy, active woman so none of my symptoms made sense!! My dr. keeps telling me that I have major anxiety problems (even though i live a very stress-free life and am very upbeat, outgoing and optimistic!) and prescribed me Lexapro. I have had a panic attack in the past, but it feels NOTHING like this. I am also having some inner ear problems, like I maybe have a sinus infection-it kind of pops in and out. anyone else have that? the heart thing and the fog is my biggest concern, should I switch pills or should I just get off BC completely? Any suggestions would help. I have a call into my obgyn right now.

I had my Mirena in for about a year and 9months and eventually went to get it taken out on wednesday- 17th Oct, cos of all the side effects- mostly mood swings and acne that never disappeared, despite being told it would. I have NEVER in my life had a spot on my back or chest until I got this put in. I thought, I have had enough and my boyfriend and I decided to just start using condoms because I have had it with hormonal contraceptives. They just dont agree with me, and many others it would seem. I never really put on weight with it, but my stomach is a lot more bloated than it used to be, unsure if it is cos its making me retain water. Whatevs, I feel fine at the moment, having now had it out, but not hugely different.

my period finished the day before I got it out, so I dont know when I'll be due another. I reckon it'll take a while for my hormones to balance out and get rid of the spots etc. So I'm not expecting a quick recovery. I am currently at Uni in edinburgh studying to be a Herbalist and I may see about taking some herbs to help speed up the process.

One thing before I go, I was really pissed off that the nurse in the family planning clinic more or less dismissed my sympthoms, saying it could'nt cause them. I was in no mod to argue, but bloody hell. They must be covering up for some reason or another, or maybe they just don't realise that it DOES cause side-effects and they are WRITTEN ON THE LEAFLET that you get when you get the thing inserted. D'oh.

Anyways, I will try and come back and let you know how it goes, how quickly my moods and spots get better, etc and if anyone wants to ask anything, feel free :D

I took lipitor for 4 months. I exercised a lot and improved my diet. However, I gained almost 10 lbs in that short time. It did greatly lower my HDL/LDL, but I quit taking it because of the abdominal weight gain. Since I've quit taking it, my head has been itching like crazy, but I'm a lot less bloated and feel better.
As for muscle pain, I didn't have any, but the doctors and nurses strictly said to stop taking it if muscle pain occurred.

Over one year now and my 55 year old body is still devastated.

I have posted here before. I was given Levaquin in capsule form ( 2 capsules) first night in ER for beginning bronchitis and flu and fainting from low electrolyte imbalance and smashing my nose and face full weight and knocking myself out with bleeding for a week.

I was sent home after 3 hours against my frantic ojections and fainted again within 5 minutes into the ride home.
ER doc said it was a vagal response. They put me in a recovery room and next day gave me more levaquin ( called "the Big Gun" antibiotic amongst doctors and nurses when it first came out ).
They discharged me later that day and gave me 5 more days worth of this stuff. First night home my body "exploded" in symptoms so horrible and unprecedented...nothing like the flu. Nightmares, paranoia, shoulders burning ( got torn roator cuff ) arms burning, down to hands then hands would get numb and ice cold. Stomach going crazy with noise and weird wincing pains. Bladder all weird, cold like never before then hot. Itching arm and elbows and scalp. Other crazy terifying symptoms too like popping in ears and joints.

Next morning tried to eat piece of toast and my body went into shock. Raced back up to ER in ambulance. Told them I felt like I was dying. Did basic tests, never found anything. Did this several times that week. I was crying it was so terrifying and suffering. And I was 54 years old! I kept telling the ER staffs I was taking this "Levaquin" They never once told me to stop so I didn't and I never got any warning pamphletts when they gave this to me nor did any doctor tell me what to look out for in reactions. And you get different docs every time you go to these ER's anyway.

Couldn't eat for months. Lost 35 lbs. So weak and shaky and feeling paranoid and like I was going to die for months...still do feel this way half the time.

Went to ER's 15 times last year. Heart pulse rate down in 30's for months. Passed out in hospital, had 3 and 1/2 "pause" one night with heart. Still having complete body breakdowns to this day one year and one month later. Wake up so sick. Have fractured vertebrae, leg pain and weakness ankles and knees especially. Shoulders and arms hurt and so weak. Prickly nerve haywire feeling inside and out. Feel so sick and weak just like one year ago. Anxiety is out of this world...depression too. Take Lorazepam but fight this as long term use does other bad things to you.

Today is another nightmare day. Moaning in total body haywireness, weakness, nasea and sadness about reaching the end of the line with doctors who say there is no more they can do for me. THAT is about the worst hope crushing thing now. No place to go. Everybody's done what they can. Nobody will send me to one of those Univeristy hospitals. If I was rich, I would say, take me and keep me here until you find out what has happened to me here.

But on the contrary, financially ruined now. 70,000 in debt. And can't declare bankruptcy now with new Bush passed legislation that makes this so hard it just isn't worth killing myself with courtroom stress and tons and tons of paper work and attorney fees.

Still no better one year later and more symptoms than I have mentioned. Just picked up bronchial asthma, sinusitis, and scarring in left lung...all new in last six months. Get rashes on legs and scrotum. Popping in ears and joints. Shakey, tremors...pain in intestinal areas all the time. B-12 reading is 175. Testosterone level so low now must rub gel on back to try to raise this. List goes on and on.

Called manufacturer of Levaquin, Ortho-McNeil and a product complaint lady heard my story and told me that Emergency Room should have never given me this antibiotic when they knew my electrolyte levels were low. Is she inferring that this "Big Gun" antibiotic is so powerful that someone with a low electrolyte balance could be damaged by it? Guess so.

But, no attorney will even stay on the phone with me for 5 minutes about my case. They bluntly say ( I'm serious) that if I had died or my liver had failed...they would take my case. Anything else isn't good enough for them to risk their time and money especially since G.W.Bush has capped medical malpractice awards to $250,000. And I guess you do have to be dead to win one of these cases. Great working man and woman respecting and protecting country we have here.
'
The corporaations come before us with these right wing republican guys.

In February, 2005, I had a severe allergic reaction to Levaquin. The day I received the prescription for Levaquin. I took my first dose at 5pm. As soon as I took the pill, I became very sleepy, so I went to bed. At 520pm, I awoke suddenly because my ears felt as if they were on fire. When I went to the bathroom mirror to look at my ears, they were both firey red and ringing. I then experienced some tightness in my throat and my tongue began to swell. So I ask my daughter to go with me to the emergency room. So we left to go to the emergency room. When I got there, which we only lived about 2and 1/2 miles away, my lips had begun to turn blue and my tongue was getting thick feeling. The triage nurse put me in a wheelchair and brought me back to urgent care. I sat down on a wood table and was talking to my daughter trying not to worry. Then a nurse arrived with a shot of ephinephrine and gave it to me in my stomach. As soon as the nurse left and was out of sight I started to lay back onto the table, as I was telling my daughter to get a doctor something was wrong. Then when I came to I had an oxygen mask over my mouth and all the doctors and nurses surrounding me, telling me to remain calm they are going to put me asleep so that they can intabate me, (stick a tube down my throat to breath for me). The next time I woke up, I had been on a "vent" for 3 days and they had to supply me with 10 liters of fluid after they got me on the 'vent'. I stayed a week in the hospital before I was discharged. My body swelled up so badly, I looked like I was a pumpkin about to pop open. I had small little dots all over my body for weeks after this episode. I can now take no antibotics. I am allergic to all antibotics so If I get an infection, I am out of luck!

Hello, I started taking Singulair last summer and after three months of thinking I must be dying I decided to look for a website that wasn't connected to formal medicine and I found this website and one other and was so relieved to read the postings I found. I am a retired R.N. and while working I saw more than my fair share of negligence and outright malpractice. I watched as the "helping professions" of medicine become yet another lucrative venue for the big businessmen. Drug companies are the worst. Do not expect or trust the drug companies to perform long-term testing of new drugs before releasing them to be prescribed. It doesn't happen the way it had before when there were strident ethical standards in force. It truly is about money. Something that really frightens me more and more is how the doctors and nurses believe what the drug companies have documented about their drugs as gospel. If a possible side effect isn't listed in the pharmacology manual they truly think it can't exist. These are intelligent people for the most part, but thinking can become institutionalized and narrowed along with their medical vision. Then here we have patients coming to the doctor or nurse practitioner complaining of a host of symptoms caused by a drug like Singulair and since these side effects are not listed in the Physicians Desk Reference the patient might be sent for a myriad of anxiety provoking tests, the patient might be improperly diagosed and improperly treated possibly with more medications that will do more to harm the patient. And here is this poor patient ,dispirited, because she is probably still experiencing these side effects and the real cause is being bypassed altogether due to a misplaced trust in a drug company. Who needs this and who needs an added problem, the wasteful and expensive expense! I stopped taking Singulair due to the people who were willing to share while looking for answers themselves. Your sharing has helped so many. I thank you. Singulair has helped with congestion that I would otherwise have gone to my PMD for an antibiotic. It clears the congestion along with a regimen of nasal douching with colloidal silver and oil of oregano just fine. I have asthma but it is rare for me to have an attack. My sinusitis is the reason Singulair was prescribed for me. I was alternately relieved and angry last year when I realized the things I was experiencing were from the Singulair. I was about to throw my presription bottle out when I decided to keep it just for the times of extreme sinus congestion. Three weeks ago my father died and I cried a lot and that gave way to congestion and so I took Singulair for two weeks and it happened all over again. I'm fifty five and forgetful, anyway, and now I had the added thick brain fog making me feel like I had dementia, so, I was forgetting where the arthritic stiffness and pain was coming from, the weakness in my legs and feet, the fatigue, the anxiousness, anxiety, the gastrointestinal pains and rumblings (I thought I had an ulcer), palpitations, chest pains, fears of choking when eating, (I had largyngitis for six weeks last year while on this horrible drug), depression, dizzyness (I was at a shopping mall to buy Father's Day gifts and was sure I was going to pass out or have a heart attack) , headaches and weird pressures felt in my head and numbness and tingling in hands, arms and feet and legs. I stopped taking it yesterday and I can say I feel about 50% improved. I know when the diet is examined and changed to a vegetarian diet excluding dairy products including eggs and drinking pure water and no carbonated beverages or alcohol that asthma and sinusitis can be greatly reduced and many times eliminated. I would welcome the dosage and schedule of the quercitin/bromelain regimen and any other alternative approaches...please email me at ****** If your doctor gives you the fisheye when you tell him that Singulair is killing you, and if he patronizes you thinking you do not know what YOU are talking about...remind him of this...remind him/her of all the doctors who believed hormonal replacement therapy (HRT) to be the answer to preventing heart disease and breast cancer in women...and how it was found that HRT actually was causing both Heart Disease and Breast Cancer!! Then you can appeal to him to use his gift of discernment giving up his blind faith in drug companies and their hype. Thank you

It took doctors and nurses approximately 7 hours to get me to come out of the effects of Anectine. When I first came to realize I was aware of my surroundings, I was completely paralyzed and was on a respirator. While I laid in recovery after I became aware of my surroundings, a nurse would yell my name and rub my shoulders extremely hard to make me feel pain so I would come out of the effects. Once I did, I gagged on the respirator and it was removed, however, I was groggy for several days and stayed in the hospital. By the way, I was in the hospital for a 15-20 minute surgery to have my throat scrapped (tonsils grew tags or were not removed completely at age 8). I was 18 years old at the time. Talk about a raw throat with a respirator being pulled out of it. I didn't eat anything for 3 weeks. My children are not allowed to have Anectine either, because there is no test that can be performed to see if they would have the same reaction as I. It is not an allergic reaction, but one that is brought on by one gene from my mother and one from my father that caused me to react as I did. I was told if I was to be under an anesthetic longer than 20 minutes and Anectine were used, I would die.